[Projectleiding] Accessible showers

[Simon Hawthorn]

Hi Henry,

That makes a lot of sense then! Sorry if I picked up the wrong bits of the legislation but certainly interesting that the protections are not as well thought of there as they look from the outside. I always find that fascinating to see.

If the historic data supports that number it sounds a reasonable trade off and gives us some cover in case people question it. I much prefer a data driven answer and also knowing the much increased cost helps to explain the difficult decisions made.

Noted on the connections, I assumed that the current placement of toilets and showers was set by the utilities but always good to have confirmation.

Have a good afternoon!

Simon
On Tuesday, May 20th, 2025 at 6:48 PM, Henry Schokkenbroek <henry at ifcat.org> wrote:

> Hi Simon,
>
> Sorry to hear you were that occupied with work.
> On a positive note, that sounds like you have a job and income. I also see a lot of people without.
>
>> I am not an expert on Dutch law but even I can read Article 1 of the Constitution and whilst I am struggling with the Algemene Wet Gelijke Behandeling it would seem to partially cover this.
>
> Well, let's not go there. Equality within our constitution is a joke and doesn't say we have to do anything.
>
>> My proposal would be to see how many we can get and aim for around 10% of our showers to be accessible ones if possible, even if they are combo ones
>
> That number would be quite high in our case. We expect to have around 60 showers in total, and currently plan for 3 MiVa/shower combo units. Historically this has proven sufficient, and ticket sales do not show signs that demand will be significantly different this year.
>
> A MiVa unit costs roughly the same as a regular unit, but a regular unit serves 12–14 people at once. So it’s a trade-off that we try to balance as fairly as possible.
>
> We will have 138 regular toilets and 3 MiVa ones. That makes up for 2,17% and 2,17% of 3500 would be 76 people.
> I would be more than happy if we would welcome 76 people how need to use a MiVa toilet. Don't pin me on this number, in the past we've welcomed 10 to 20ish max.
>
>> Now then. showers. If I recall there is a lack of availability of stand alone shower blocks in Netherlands for the summer? We did discuss some of the combo toilet/showers and I have been thinking about that.
>
> There is not only a lack of these in the summer. I can honestly say I never have seen a standalone shower MiVa unit ever.
> As far as I'm aware they always come combined and people have been using them happily for years (not only on our events).
>
>> As an extra thought, do we need to consider how all the showers are connected - are their any environmental issues with soaps and shampoos that we might need to warn people about?
>
> Nothing the sewage system can't handle.
>
>> We can place these (water and infrastructure allowing) by Safety for example where there is an "invalide toilet" on the map already as a reserved one and maybe scatter a couple with the block to the east by the campers and one with the family camping as that could double up for parents and children as well.
>
> We can't place them, team:terrain places them (as they also look at water/sewer connection, make the maps, etc) but we sure can give recommendations to them. I think for now they are looking at:
>
> - The toilet block near the supermarket
> - Safety
> - Block south of Karaoke bar
>
> warm Regards,
>
> Henry Paulissen Schokkenbroek
> T: +31611530564
>
> On 20/05/2025 12:34, Simon Hawthorn wrote:
>
>> Hello Henry
>>
>> Going through my list of actions I have one to talk to you about accessible showers for WHY. Apologies for the delay replying, I had to deal with redundancy in my job and that took most of my spare time for a couple of weeks. Good news, I am still employed.
>>
>> Now then. showers. If I recall there is a lack of availability of stand alone shower blocks in Netherlands for the summer? We did discuss some of the combo toilet/showers and I have been thinking about that.
>>
>> I think as a compromise, if we can get a few of those it would be helpful, even if we have to semi separate them to help preserve them for those with genuine needs. I pick my words carefully here because there may be many people who would benefit from an accessible shower but I am also very aware of the fact that accessible facilities are often misused making them less useful for those with extra needs.
>>
>> My proposal would be to see how many we can get and aim for around 10% of our showers to be accessible ones if possible, even if they are combo ones. I am not an expert on Dutch law but even I can read Article 1 of the Constitution and whilst I am struggling with the Algemene Wet Gelijke Behandeling it would seem to partially cover this. But I leave compliance with Team PL!
>>
>> We can place these (water and infrastructure allowing) by Safety for example where there is an "invalide toilet" on the map already as a reserved one and maybe scatter a couple with the block to the east by the campers and one with the family camping as that could double up for parents and children as well.
>>
>> As an extra thought, do we need to consider how all the showers are connected - are their any environmental issues with soaps and shampoos that we might need to warn people about?
>>
>> Happy to have a conversation about it and think about how we word any information about them to help manage peoples opinions and expectations.
>>
>> Have a good day!
>>
>> Simon
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Projectleiding mailing list
>> Projectleiding at lists.ifcat.org
>>
>> https://lists.ifcat.org/mailman/listinfo/projectleiding
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ifcat.org/pipermail/projectleiding/attachments/20250521/673d68eb/attachment.html>