[Projectleiding] Crowd funding the event

[jeroen at ifcat.org]

Hi,

> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: Attilla de Groot <attilla at ifcat.org>
> Verzonden: 19 November, 2019 10:47 PM
> Aan: jeroen at ifcat.org
> CC: Juerd Waalboer <juerd at tnx.nl>; projectleiding at lists.ifcat.org; Martin
> Gross <martin at muc.ccc.de>
> Onderwerp: Re: [Projectleiding] Crowd funding the event
> 
> Hi,
> 
> > On 17 Nov 2019, at 23:34, <jeroen at ifcat.org> <jeroen at ifcat.org> wrote:
> >
> > Atilla,
> >
> > On Crowdfunding :
> >
> > Crowdfunding could be an option, we should not use this name for any form
> of pre-sale to raise early cashflow,  but it could be an option purely for small
> sponsors as a gift to make the event possible.
> > Crowdfunding/Donation buttons/options could be added to the MCH2021
> Website, the Wiki or an item in the Ticket shop, for example CCC had a
> voluntary badge donation item in their shop.....
> 
> That is exactly what I’m proposing, not sure I understand this comment?
Nevermind, my way of expanding your smalle remark into what I undersdand it to be 😊
Nice to see that we correctly understand each other.
> 
> > There is one downside to crowdfunding though, it is open to anyone and
> > there are most certainly parties where we would not except donations
> from, for any donation made we would need to know where it is coming from
> and return the money if the source is incompatible with our community
> values.
> 
> Ticket sales is (within reason) open to anyone as well and pretty anonymous.

Agreed and avoiding this entirely is a hard thing, if we see employees from $evilcompany promoting said $$evilcompany then we would ask them to leave.

> I don’t see how this is different. Regardless, I would classify this as a nice
> problem to have and we’ll see what to do with the 100k from $evilcompany ;-)

This is slightly different as $evilcompany will eventually be pointed out at the event to us but with donations Euros  from $MCH2021friends  are the same as Euros  from $evilcompany.
To avoid controversy we could consider not accepting anonymous donations and donating anonymous donations to another good cause to avoid accepting Euros  from $evilcompany.
We are held to a high standard by the community and while a donation could be anonymous to the general public at least the MCH2021 finance/sponsoring team should be aware of who is donating what.
We could explain in the donation process that the donator should leave their details for the finance team while donating and offer the option to stay anonymous or be listed in a donation hall of fame.
> 
> > On Giftcards/Coupons :
> >
> > I agree with Juerd that "Coupon" is a way better word than "Giftcard" in this
> context.
> 
> I’m pretty sure this is flexible. Let’s keep it to one naming discussion a year. ;-)

Laughing out Loud !!!

> 
> > There should not be much of a problem with the word voucher as well,
> > yes that is used in a different system by CCC Camp & Congress but they have
> been doing that for many years, camp2019 was the first event where tickets
> sold out during the voucher phase and that lead to controversy. We should
> watch what happens to the congress tickets, if that leads to the same
> controversy then yes vouchers might be an incorrect name.
> >
> > For SHA2017 vouchers where also used and I think the community
> understands quite well that the ticket sale for our event is sufficiently
> different, especially if buying a single full/ single partial or multiple partial
> Coupons/vouchers is possible to anyone.
> 
> Vouchers != Coupons/giftcards. Two different systems.

It appears that you are correct there : https://www.planyo.com/faq.php?q=245

> 
> > Regardless of the name there are quite a number of rules (and I am not an
> expert here) :
> > - Legal Rules with regard to explicitly mentioning the date the coupon was
> issued, the number of months the coupon must be valid or until what specific
> date/event and when the voucher loses its monetary value.
> > - VAT/BTW 	1) if it is known what the coupon will be spent on --> a ticket
> for the event --> and the VAT percentage of that ticket is known there is a
> good possibility that we need to pay VAT when the Coupon is sold directly
> > 		2) if it is unknown what the coupon will be spent on --> any
> item in the ticketshop --> and the VAT percentage of the item(s) purchased is
> unknown then we need to pay VAT when the Coupon is exchanged for
> individual items.
> 
> I believe this is the case from what I read. I prefer to seek advice from our
> accountant on this one.
> 
> > This requires :
> > - some creativity to make sure we fall into coupon category number 2
> 
> Not necessarily a problem, just more administrative handling.

Not just more admin handling, we need to make sure the wording on the coupon, the way they can be spent in the shop later on and the items in the shop are according to the VAT rules to make sure we are Cat 2 
And that the tax office in advance agrees that it is cat 2 to avoid tax issues later on.
> 
> > - a legal coupon expert to make sure we have the right legal wording
> 
> Definitely.
> 
> > - an accountant with experience with the financial side of coupons
> 
> Yes
> 
> > - as you mentioned a question to the VAT TAX office to avoid future
> > differences of opinion with them 😊
> 
> Yes
> 
> > If the ticket shop is open for that long changes in its appearance are to be
> expected, should not be a problem.
> 
> We just have to take it into account so we have as little changes as possible up
> to the event. This makes it clear for the visitors and they know what to expect.
> 
> > If people have the ability to purchase multiple vouchers several
> > months apart and use them to fund the partial/full ticket price when the real
> tickets go on sale the this could benefit both or visitors by allowing them to
> spread their payments And it benefits the event by providing some early on
> cash for the cash flow to make large reservation payments.
> 
> Agree.
> 
> 
> 
> — Attilla

Greetings

Netsmurf