[Projectleiding] Crowd funding the event

jeroen at ifcat.org jeroen at ifcat.org
Sun Nov 17 23:34:20 CET 2019


On Crowdfunding :

Crowdfunding could be an option, we should not use this name for any form of pre-sale to raise early cashflow,  but it could be an option purely for small sponsors as a gift to make the event possible.
Crowdfunding/Donation buttons/options could be added to the MCH2021 Website, the Wiki or an item in the Ticket shop, for example CCC had a voluntary badge donation item in their shop.....

There is one downside to crowdfunding though, it is open to anyone and there are most certainly parties where we would not except donations from, for any donation made we would need to know where it is coming from
 and return the money if the source is incompatible with our community values.

On Giftcards/Coupons :

I agree with Juerd that "Coupon" is a way better word than "Giftcard" in this context.

There should not be much of a problem with the word voucher as well, yes that is used in a different system by CCC Camp & Congress but they have been doing that for many years, camp2019 was the first event where tickets sold out 
during the voucher phase and that lead to controversy. We should watch what happens to the congress tickets, if that leads to the same controversy then yes vouchers might be an incorrect name.

For SHA2017 vouchers where also used and I think the community understands quite well that the ticket sale for our event is sufficiently different, especially if buying a single full/ single partial or multiple partial Coupons/vouchers is possible to anyone.

Regardless of the name there are quite a number of rules (and I am not an expert here) :
- Legal Rules with regard to explicitly mentioning the date the coupon was issued, the number of months the coupon must be valid or until what specific date/event and when the voucher loses its monetary value.
- VAT/BTW 	1) if it is known what the coupon will be spent on --> a ticket for the event --> and the VAT percentage of that ticket is known there is a good possibility that we need to pay VAT when the Coupon is sold directly
		2) if it is unknown what the coupon will be spent on --> any item in the ticketshop --> and the VAT percentage of the item(s) purchased is unknown then we need to pay VAT when the Coupon is exchanged for individual items.

This requires :
- some creativity to make sure we fall into coupon category number 2
- a legal coupon expert to make sure we have the right legal wording 
- an accountant with experience with the financial side of coupons
- as you mentioned a question to the VAT TAX office to avoid future differences of opinion with them 😊

If the ticket shop is open for that long changes in its appearance are to be expected, should not be a problem.

If people have the ability to purchase multiple vouchers several months apart and use them to fund the partial/full ticket price when the real tickets go on sale the this could benefit both or visitors by allowing them to spread their payments
And it benefits the event by providing some early on cash for the cash flow to make large reservation payments.




-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Projectleiding <projectleiding-bounces at lists.ifcat.org> Namens Juerd Waalboer
Verzonden: 17 November, 2019 4:50 PM
Aan: projectleiding at lists.ifcat.org
CC: Martin Gross <martin at muc.ccc.de>
Onderwerp: Re: [Projectleiding] Crowd funding the event

Attilla de Groot skribis 2019-11-17 16:21 (+0100):
> Of course we hope that we can get any donations and/or sponsoring, but 
> another option would be crowdfunding.

This can be interpreted as if the crowd funding would make sponsoring redundant, but if I understand correctly, the giftcards are to be seen as prepayment for future ticket sales, not extra income.

Can you further specify whether the proposed crowd funding is supposed to be an additional source of income, to replace (part of) another source of income such as sponsoring, or just a major shift in the liquidity timeline? At the meeting yesterday I got the impression that it was just a way to get some cash flowing in our direction earlier.

> A new feature in pretix is the possibility to sell “giftcards” (don’t 
> confuse with a voucher) that are valid for purchases in the 
> ticketshop.

I don't like the term "gift" because I'm afraid this term will cause some people to believe they shouldn't buy them except for the purpose of gifting them.

Since "voucher" is taken by the funny incrowd snowball system of the CCC, I'm suggesting "coupon".

> However, there are a few consequences

None of the listed consequences look terrible, and I generally think this is a very good idea, if I did understand correctly that it's just a liquidity shifting scheme. I cannot currently think of any other negative consequences.
Met vriendelijke groet, // Kind regards, // Korajn salutojn,

Juerd Waalboer  <juerd at tnx.nl>
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