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<TITLE>RE: [Projectleiding] Crowd funding the event</TITLE>
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<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT FACE="Calibri">Martin,</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT FACE="Calibri">I agree with what you are writing</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT FACE="Calibri">,</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">it is also my non expert opinion of the Dutch VAT law,</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">just an example</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT FACE="Calibri"> to make sure we all agree</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"> </SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT FACE="Calibri">"single purpose voucher"</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT FACE="Calibri"> – Only redeemable for a</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">T-shirt with 21% VAT then the 21%VAT has to be paid at the moment the</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">"single purpose voucher</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT FACE="Calibri">” is sold in the shop.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT FACE="Calibri">"multi purpose voucher"</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT FACE="Calibri"> - R</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT FACE="Calibri">edeemable for a</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">T-shirt with 21% VAT</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT FACE="Calibri"> or</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">an entrance ticket consisting of 6% & 21% VAT items then</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">the VAT percentage has to be paid when the</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">"multi purpose voucher"</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT FACE="Calibri"> is exchanged for</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">ether a T-shirt or an entrance ticket.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT FACE="Calibri">Nice to hear that Pretix supports</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"> <FONT FACE="Calibri">"multi purpose voucher"</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT FACE="Calibri"> and that we are flexible in how this presents itself to our visitors !</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT FACE="Calibri">Netsmurf</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><B><SPAN LANG="nl"><FONT FACE="Calibri">Van:</FONT></SPAN></B><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="nl"><FONT FACE="Calibri"> Martin Gross <martin@muc.ccc.de><BR>
</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"><B></B></SPAN><B><SPAN LANG="nl"><FONT FACE="Calibri">Verzonden:</FONT></SPAN></B><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="nl"><FONT FACE="Calibri"> 21 November, 2019 8:33 PM<BR>
</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"><B></B></SPAN><B><SPAN LANG="nl"><FONT FACE="Calibri">Aan:</FONT></SPAN></B><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="nl"><FONT FACE="Calibri"> projectleiding@lists.ifcat.org<BR>
</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"><B></B></SPAN><B><SPAN LANG="nl"><FONT FACE="Calibri">CC:</FONT></SPAN></B><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="nl"><FONT FACE="Calibri"> jeroen@ifcat.org; Attilla de Groot <attilla@ifcat.org>; Juerd Waalboer <juerd@tnx.nl>; Alexander <electrowolf@gmail.com><BR>
</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"><B></B></SPAN><B><SPAN LANG="nl"><FONT FACE="Calibri">Onderwerp:</FONT></SPAN></B><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="nl"><FONT FACE="Calibri"> Re: [Projectleiding] Crowd funding the event</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT FACE="Calibri">Hello everyone,</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT FACE="Calibri">Some of this here might be repetitive of things already said - but repeating stuff over and over makes for better memorization, right? ;-)</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT FACE="Calibri">Since pretix introduced the concept of giftcards only recently, we did have to do some digging into the tax law. So while I am no expert on the matter and obviously any decision should be backed up by the opinion of a qualified tax consultant, here are some key points to keep in mind:</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT FACE="Calibri">EU legislation has been passed which outlines pretty clearly as to when the tax for the voucher has to be collected. It pretty much hinges on the fact if it is a "single purpose voucher" or a "multi purpose voucher". A SPV is a voucher, where the redemption value (what you are going to get in exchange - not the monetary value at purchase) is already know. So calling it a "munch card", which is known that it will be redeemable for munchies/food at Whatever-we'll-call-it 2021 --> Single purpose voucher, has to be taxes on purchase.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT FACE="Calibri">As of writing this, pretix only supports MPV, as those are sold with no VAT and are applied like cash when redeemed. Arguing that this "crowdfunding" is giving you an MPV should not be difficult: Just having the abstract possibility of the participants redeeming it for one of many differently priced event/camping, parking or caravan tickets should do the trick: There is a chance that the event-ticket is actually a combination of different components (Event @ 21% VAT, Toeristenbelasting @ 6%), whereas the parking tickets and camper-spots just have one tax-rate attached to them.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT FACE="Calibri">As to the naming-conventions:</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT FACE="Calibri">When selling a giftcard, it is just an item like any other in pretix: You can call it what you want and you can design the PDF with the giftcard-code however you want.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT FACE="Calibri">However, (right now) when redeeming the gift-cards, the payment-step will call it a giftcard. Unless you want to start providing custom language-sets/translations (and keep them up to date): Just saying: But that's going to be a PITA. But there is nothing stopping us from putting an additional information-text on top of the payment methods that informs people that they can redeem the crowdfunding-code by redeeming it in the giftcard-section. And as the redemption of said giftcards won't be an issue until the official start of ticket-sales, we can just hide all references to giftcards until that point: That way, there won't be any confusion around the term at the time of purchase.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT FACE="Calibri">Best,</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT FACE="Calibri">Martin</FONT></SPAN></P>
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<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT FACE="Calibri">Am Do., 21. Nov. 2019 um 17:26 Uhr schrieb Alexander <</FONT></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><A HREF="mailto:electrowolf@gmail.com"><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"><U><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" FACE="Calibri">electrowolf@gmail.com</FONT></U></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN></A><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"></SPAN><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT FACE="Calibri">>:</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT FACE="Calibri">Hi all,</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT FACE="Calibri">Short remarks:</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT FACE="Calibri">* If you want to sell giftcards (or w/e it will be) you can name them with with monetary value in the name. e.g. "100 euro MunCH giftcard". This removes all doubt about what it is ;-).</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT FACE="Calibri">* By setting a max "giftcard" value that is guaranteed to be below the ticket price, we can improve our cash flow whilst not having to "pay people back". To me this seems to be the easiest option.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT FACE="Calibri">* Crowdfunding vs sponsoring: There are many tastes of either. Some are purely donations, some require something in return. But we have full control over what we want to give in return (insert sponsor discussions here). Depending now how you set up the crowdfunding you can have control over who supports us. If we use most crowdfunding platforms you do not have any control over who supports us. If we mix both discussion you could come up with the following question: "Do we find it ok if %evilcompany gives us free money?" If the answer is "no" we have some other challenges to deal with ;-).</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT FACE="Calibri">Cheers,</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT FACE="Calibri">Alexander//Electrowolf</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P DIR=LTR><SPAN LANG="en-us"><FONT FACE="Calibri">PS. MunCHcards sounds cool, use it to buy munch munch munchies!</FONT></SPAN></P>
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